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| Bob C. sapele ...guitar pics http://www-.luthiersforum.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10102&t=1630 |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:19 am ] |
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I thought you might like to see some of Bob's wares take form. This will be a 00 guitar with cedar top, trimmed in Brazilian Rosewood and a maple ebony purfling line, also made up by Bob. 
There is a wash coat of shellac over the entire box to bring out the color and figure, but I would not call this a finish. (so don't look to critically at that aspect) The cedar top seems to have a little bearclaw. I've never seen that in cedar beforee. 
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| Author: | BruceH [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:33 am ] |
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John, Absolutely stunning! Now all you need is to do is incorporate your brother's skull and cross bones sound port 
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| Author: | Steve Kinnaird [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:51 am ] |
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YO! That looks fine, bro. You've been muy busy, no? I think that wood safely falls into the ultra zoot category. |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 3:51 am ] |
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Hey John, can you talk, in detail, about your bending process. I just broke a set of this yesterday and need some tips before I try again. Both curves of my cutaway broke at the same time. I was bending EXTREMELY slowly. 1 1/2 turns every 3 minutes at 300?. Not sure how else to do it. My layup is slat/wood/slat/blanket/slat from form working outward. Any tips will be greatly appreciated. Thanks Paul |
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| Author: | LanceK [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 4:47 am ] |
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John - i can hardly wait to work with the set I have! BUT like Paul, i REALLY need to know how to bend it. Anything you can add would be great - Awesome work BTW and a great combo - the Brz bindings looks great! |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 5:51 am ] |
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John that looks spectacular. I know it's my wood but everytime I see a guitar built with it I'm amazed at the beauty of this wood. Should have called it "The Other Tree". |
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| Author: | Brock Poling [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:32 am ] |
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Or the "better" tree. That stuff is remarkable. Great work. |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:42 am ] |
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That should be the "the other tree" Bob maybe "THE TREE", a sort of arboreal takeover The wood does look great, and I did feel sort of good about the Brazilian Binding. (Thank you for that Bro) About the bending. It did fight me. I bent the cutaway section on a hot pipe by hand. I used a brass backing sheet to support the outside of the bend and got it so hot that I needed gloves to hold the brass against the wood. I don't know how hot that was but when you do it that way you can just feel when its ready. Just a spritz of water before you bend, perhaps a second spritz if things are taking too long. (the water turns to steam and that heats the wood up more quickly and uniformly) But it has to be hotter than steam so it has to dry out to reach those higher temps. I did thin to 1/16 inch and still got a few cracks. I kept on bending and then repaired the cracks with superglue. You absolutely cannot see the repairs because they occur in the gain of a curl which just looks busy when it goes back together. I took a very thin veneer of mahogany and bent it to the same contours as the sides and epoxied (west epoxy) that to the bend on the inside to strengthen it where the sides were so thin and prone to cracking. The edge of the veneer terminates in a side brace to hide the fact that there is a veneer. The color match is real close and only the grain differences give it away. The rest of the side is a little thicker, on the order of 3/32. I sure do appreciate the kind remarks. Bob, I love the wood and want some more. Hope this advice helps. I did cut a test strip out of the side to start with to practice on. John |
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| Author: | Jeff Doty [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 6:51 am ] |
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John, Whoaaa! That is just unreal. More pictures please, I can't get enough of that zoot! Jeff |
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| Author: | John How [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:00 am ] |
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Fantastic guitar John, I broke my first set trying to do a venetian cutaway, so I did a florentine instead. I am still going to try the venetian again but not as sharp as I did the first time. That wood is absolutely georgous. Bob certainly out did himself with this stuff. |
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| Author: | JJ Donohue [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 7:18 am ] |
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That wood comes from "The Mother of all Trees" and John, you have certainly glorified its existence. I can only imagine what it will look like when finished. Please keep us updated us as you progress. Thanks for sharing. |
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| Author: | EBarajas [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 8:17 am ] |
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What can I say, Just beautiful John! |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 9:11 am ] |
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Thanks for the kind remarks guys. Can't take much of the credit really, the wood does it all. John |
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| Author: | Bobc [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:18 am ] |
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John your way too modest. It's the wood in the right hands that makes the differance. |
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| Author: | Matt Gage [ Sat Apr 09, 2005 11:23 pm ] |
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Yes, very nice job John. I love the binding choice as well. Matt |
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| Author: | Steve Spodaryk [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 12:26 pm ] |
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These pictures are making me jealous - big time. Beautiful work and great wood. Anyone have a set they want to sell me? I've got some killer material to trade. Paul, I would say you're going way too slow on that cutaway. You may have cooked all the moisture out of the wood. I've bent a dozen+ cutaways in high figure koa, maple, mahogany, sapele, etc. I first do the curve closest to the headblock by hand. High heat, a light spritzing with water. Back up the bend with spring steel. Standard stuff. Heat a broad area. Be patient. The wood will relax. I find that most people don't use enough heat when hand bending. If the water vaporizes in a "puff" it's too cool. The droplets should dance off the iron in little beads. This seems to work out to 300-315F. A meat thermometer is cheap and a nice way to know where you are at. When you go to put it in the bender, spritz it again and let the blankets get up to temperature. Clamp the waist, bend the lower bout, then finish with the cutaway. I would make that bend in one smooth, steady motion. I imagine this specific figure is one of the tougher woods to bend, but these techniques have given me good results (no breaks) in lots of challenging wood. |
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| Author: | Matt Gage [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:16 pm ] |
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hey Steve I have a set for you if your still intrested. give me a shout Matt |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Sun Apr 10, 2005 10:56 pm ] |
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Steve I understand what you are saying and it sort of makes sense to me, but...I was under the impression that most figured woods were best bent drier. The maple I've bent in the past has been done with NO water at all, not even spritzing. In experiments on scrap, I found that the flames poped up much easier when wet. This said, why would it matter if the sapele was steamed to the point of being dry? My thought was actually to take it to that point on purpose. the spritzing was to prevent burning but once that steamed dry, the bending could start. Is my thinking way off base? Thanks in advance for any help given. Paul |
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| Author: | Steve Spodaryk [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 12:54 am ] |
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Paul, it's hard to speak in absolutes about any of this. No single process works for all the different woods, and the figured woods definitely reqire more care. Builders like Cumpiano, soak their sides and get great results that way. My approach is to bend "drier", and wood can be bent completely "dry" (6-8% MC, like your maple), but I always spritz the sides with the spray bottle and wipe the water around. I let them sit for 10 minutes, but don't soak them. With high figure, I've experimented with leaving them thicker (.090-.100), to allow for extra leveling. Cutaways are a judgment call, but I would thin them normally (.075-.080). I believe the extra water in the fibers of the wood helps to conduct the heat. With hand bending, I will continue to add water as it steams off. It fights back when it has gotten completely dry. In the sidebender, I start the bending as it starts to steam off, not after the steam has stopped. What I think happened with your bend is that you cooked the wood completely dry (~0% MC), the wood started to take a set and became brittle, but then you continued to try and bend. Just a theory. Your technique would probably work fine with the more pliable woods. Maple bends very nicely. Same with the rosewoods, the dense/oily stuff. I find the "mahoganies" to be much more difficult - particularly the ribbon striped figure. |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 3:46 am ] |
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Thanks Steve, I think your theory makes perfect sense. |
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| Author: | jfrench [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 2:33 pm ] |
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Yes John, you're too modest. Beautiful work. I love the back with no center stripe, you've lined up the figure perfectly. Thats going to be an incredible looking guitar! |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 10:49 pm ] |
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Thanks again all. Paul, I can't emphasize enough the benefit from cutting a little test strip from the side you are working with and just bending it by hand to get a feel for the wood and how it reacts with different temps. There is usually enough excess material in each side to cut that strip, unless you are trying to squeeze some binding strips out of the sides as well. John |
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| Author: | Pwoolson [ Mon Apr 11, 2005 11:06 pm ] |
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John, I was trying to get binding from it but that proved to be foolish. I was going to bind it in the same wood and do a contrasting purf. I've had great luck with that in the past. It looks like the purf lines are inlayed. Very simple yet classy. |
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| Author: | John Kinnaird [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 5:46 am ] |
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I agree Paul. I really like that look. |
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| Author: | Brian Hawkins [ Tue Apr 12, 2005 1:56 pm ] |
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Hey, If any of you guys are interested, Steve @ Colonial Tonewoods and myself have what is probably left of this tree. |
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